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similar_name writes: "The prospect of children printing their own Transformers and My Little Pony toys is a step closer, after toy firm Hasbro revealed a partnership with 3D printing company 3D Systems. The two companies are working together to 'co-develop and commercialize innovative play printers and platforms later this year.'"
[Ed. Note] The first one I would print is Applejack.
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3D Printers for Kids
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
I'm not a robot like you. I don't like having disks crammed into me... unless they're Oreos, and then only in the mouth.
-- Fry
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ArhcAngel on Monday February 17 2014, @01:14PM
3D printer templates will soon be showing up on ThePirateBay if they aren't already. I foresee much weeping and gnashing of teeth over attempts to control this technology. Be on the lookout for 3DRM tech to be the next big wave in cyber security circles.
(Score: 1) by mtrycz on Monday February 17 2014, @01:23PM
Insightful.
Maybe this time the hacker community can preempt the industries? I mean, you can't copyright a shape, can you? Unless it's a trademark, but then again...
(Score: 2, Funny) by Random2 on Monday February 17 2014, @03:54PM
Well, that depends on how round your edges are....
If only I registered 3 users earlier....
(Score: 1) by kogspg on Monday February 17 2014, @04:04PM
Rounded edges fell under design patent and not copyright or trademark.
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Tuesday February 18 2014, @03:09AM
Sorry, no, it was not an Insightful comment. It shows a profound lack of understanding of how the 3D modeling industry works, and especially how access to the models is gained.
(Score: 1) by mtrycz on Tuesday February 18 2014, @04:20AM
Would you mind correcting it then?
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Tuesday February 18 2014, @02:56PM
I already posted a couple of comments. No one wants to listen.
First, 3D modeling is primarily done at a small scale, as in lone developer in his bedroom level. The made for Hollywood stuff that's done by the big production teams isn't the same. You build a model for animation very differently from how you build it for 3D printing, to the point where these animation models won't print without major re-working. You're better off starting from scratch.
As has been pointed out repeatedly, many modelers have already given away their models for free, so suddenly finding them on TPB is pretty irrelevant. The bigger problem is finding your model being listed for sale on Turbosquid by someone who didn't make it but is now getting paid for it.
At that point you could argue that someone who bought such a model could then put it on TPB. Obviously they wouldn't get the benefit of a free model, but everyone else would. Think of this as being like people putting up Photoshop or Office.
Except for one small problem. That was an animation model, not a 3D printable model. It'll require a lot of work to turn it into a printable model. Printable models are done on contract or for personal use. At least, any model that's actually interesting is. Such models aren't likely to be made available.
Someone above pointed to a link on TPB to show that it's actually already happened. For example, the search returns an AR-15 lower receiver. Guess what? That model was given away freely, by its creator, years ago. Who cares if it's on TPB now?
The claim is that a proliferation of cheap 3D printers is going to result in ready-for-printing 3D models suddenly becoming available on TPB against the creators wishes.
How?
I have a model ready to print on my work station. I do not want you to have it. Explain how you're going to get it. I don't know the first thing about computer security and I can state with certainty that you will NEVER get my model unless I specifically give it to you.
It's not like my workstation's name is Valuable Customer 3D Models. You might figure out which computer on the network is mine, but you have no way of knowing that there's a 3D model there. That is, you have no way of knowing that my computer is the one you're supposed to be targeting unless I tell you. I'll believe that you're engaged in mass hacking for personal financial records before I'll believe you're narrowing your search for 3D models.
The closest concern there'd be is if there were a hack at a 3rd party printing service like Shapeways. You don't think they've secured their system? Maybe not enough.
But that wasn't the concern. The concern is the proliferation of cheap home 3D printing and the unauthorized availability of suitable models.
If I give the model away then who cares if it ends up on TPB.
If you pay me to do a model for you then I don't care what you do with it. If I then give away your model I'll never work again.
If I make a model that I want to be able to license to everyone to print on their own, for a small fee, I'm not doing it until there's a protocol in place that will do it securely and keeps you from capturing my model. Much more realistically I'll just print it for you on my printer and mail you the finished product.
Any 3D model, ready for 3D printing, that's readily available for free to anyone who wants it, is already available because its creator made it so. Availability on TPB is a red herring.
(Score: 1) by mtrycz on Tuesday February 18 2014, @04:03PM
Hey Hombre, thanks for the insight. I don't actually agree with some of the things you say, but thanks for your time nonetheless.
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Wednesday February 19 2014, @12:14AM
I'd be interested to see what you disagree with because really, no one ever responds other than to say that they disagree. I've had this conversation quite a few times. The responses are always examples of stuff that's now on TPB (like Garin's GW stuff, which he put on TPB himself, thus proving my point), claims of being able to hack some workstation assuming that you can find the right needle in a stack of needles, claims about human nature, etc., all while never actually providing an example of how these models are going to miraculously appear where their creator didn't want them.
I have well over 10,000 3D models on my work station, the vast majority of which I got from someone else. I can say with absolute certainty that not a single one was acquired without the creator's permission.
The last thing to add is what I told ArchAngel: We also need to differentiate between the legitimate rights holder and the actual 3D modeler, e.g., Disney vs. me making a model of a Star Destroyer. AFAICT that was never the question. The conflict was just that somehow, someway, a model of X was going to end up on TPB without its creator's permission, and that's just not going to happen.
Someone making a 3D model of IP they're not licensed to *will* happen, and that is no different from what we've seen in a whole slew of industries.
(Score: 1) by mtrycz on Wednesday February 19 2014, @05:43AM
Yes, I was too busy yesterday to elaborate anything insightful, and I'll also be concise now, sorry.
I'm not in the industry or anything, I've never even printed a 3D model, but I think it WILL progressively gain popularity, as 3D printers are becoming more widespread, no matter what.
Maybe not while it's still maintaing a niche status, but soon enough.
I don't actually disagree with you, that authors and copyright holders should have their credit and benefit, but look at what's happened to the music and movie industry. As far as these go, you can find virtually anything on the webs today, legal or not.
There's also the upcoming factor of 3D scanners. Given that it's not an exact copy, and not the same quality, but if it's "good enough" for practical reasons, it'll gain popularity.
Obviously the small scale, artisan-like production will not have to be afflicted, but for the rest, it's just a matter of time.
(Also, I don't understand the meaning of your last sentence, it looks like you're contradicting yourself?)
(Score: 4, Funny) by NovelUserName on Monday February 17 2014, @01:28PM
I would totally print a car! It's not like that's stealing right?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 17 2014, @06:23PM
http://thepiratebay.se/blog/203 [thepiratebay.se]
http://thepiratebay.se/browse/605 [thepiratebay.se]
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Monday February 17 2014, @06:29PM
I assume that by "3D printer templates" you mean the 3D models/STL files? Why do you believe that they "will soon be showing up on ThePirateBay"?
I have some experience in this field. If I created the 3D model for myself, I'm probably not going to share it. This is because I'm probably going 3D print copies and sell them as part of my business.
If I commission someone to create the 3D model for me (and I still do this on a regular basis), I'm pretty confident that they won't be giving out that model to others without my express permission (which I won't grant). Why would they risk the trouble? Maybe other terms... If I commissioned you to do custom code work for me, and as part of our contract the code is mine, you're not allowed to share it with others, etc., would you risk the trouble by uploading the source to TPB or elsewhere?
Forgive me for jumping to the conclusion that said model was posted on TPB without permission. I think it's generally understood that file sharing and torrents are fine and perfectly legit, but TPB (specifically) usually implies copyright infringement.
There's a whole host of variations on who created what, for what purpose, and what license it's intended for and I really don't want to try to cover all permutations. Just let me say that, frankly, I do not see 3D models, designed for 3D printing (the latter point being kind of important) suddenly popping up on TPB and being a problem.
(Score: 1) by ArhcAngel on Monday February 17 2014, @06:53PM
Why? Because I know human nature. I know more than my fair share of individuals who will spend inordinate amounts of resources in order to avoid purchasing something if they believe they can get it for free because they have no sense of what value their time/energy are worth. I have quite literally worked with a man who worked harder at getting out of his responsibilities at work than actually doing his job would have required. Then there's the laborer who sees an opportunity to make a few extra dollars and copies your STL file from an unsecured PC in the office you commissioned the work to be done. Or maybe it's the thrill seeker who likes the adrenaline rush sneaking in and taking something that isn't theirs gives them. It has happened and it will continually happen as long as humans are part of the process.
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Tuesday February 18 2014, @12:05AM
I don't doubt that some people will go out of their way to get stuff for free, but you really didn't answer the question. Where are the models going to come from that results in the opportunity for them to be uploaded to TPB? The closest you came to an answer appears to be a belief that someone is going to hack a workstation in an office? Obviously not impossible, but I don't really see it. Or do you mean the co-worker of the contractor? Sorry, but I don't see that happening very often, if at all.
This conversation came up a few other times at The Other Site as well. No one has ever given a plausible answer for where these models will come from. There are plenty of free models available on 3D Warehouse, GrabCAD, and similar places, so then bring out up on TPB isn't really a concern. They're not ready for 3D printing, but they can be repaired.
No, we're talking about high quality, professional models designed explicitly for 3D printing, somehow, magically finding their way onto TPB. There simply is not a credible way for someone to get a hold of a model, without it being given to them, for them to put it on TPB.
Unauthorized downloading is not where the concern should be.
The concern is more likely to be with unauthorized casting/duplication. That is, if I allow someone to get a 3D print, say thru a 3rd party service like Shapeways, or even if I print it myself for the customer, and they then make a rubber mold and cast copies in resin or metal. That can and does happen.
(Score: 1) by mhajicek on Monday February 17 2014, @11:26PM
There are already oodles of free models out there. 3dcontentcentral, grabcad, cncguns, etc. Sometimes people just want to share.
(Score: 1) by Qzukk on Monday February 17 2014, @11:52PM
It won't necessarily be YOUR 3d model that appears, but if you sell a simple chunk of plastic, I expect that someone's going to figure it out and A 3d model [reddit.com] will appear.
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Tuesday February 18 2014, @12:09AM
So? Unfortunate, but that's no different from what can already be done even without a 3D printer. Mold-making and casting. Some people will do that, even though it's cheaper to just get an original than it is to reverse engineer it, especially if they have to now make the 3D model first.
(Score: 1) by ArhcAngel on Tuesday February 18 2014, @10:21PM
It's already started.
(Score: 1) by Hombre on Wednesday February 19 2014, @12:04AM
That's fantastic and I've never argued against *what you showed happening, happening." Maybe we have a disconnect, because AFAICT you've just shown that you don't get it. Garin did those models, not GW. Pretty safe bet that Garin put those models on TPB. I never said that wouldn't happen.
It seems like now you want to argue that someone made a 3D model of someone else's IP without permission and then put that up. And? I never said that wouldn't happen. You can't stop someone from making a 3D model and once they do that, there's no telling what they'll do with it.
I've said:
-- These models have to be created, pretty specifically for 3D print applications
-- A model will not end up on TPB unless the original modeler gave the model out (for free or for pay)
-- If he gave it out for free then who cares if it ends up on TPB
-- A model designed for 3D printing isn't likely to be given out to multiple people, even for a fee. More likely is he would either print it for the customer himself or use a third party service.
In Garin's case, those models are now on TPB *only* because GW sent a C&D. Prior to that, he used a third party service to print them for customers.
I made a model of a Star Destroyer. I don't give it out. So? Someone else will make a model of a Star Destroyer. They'll give it out. See 3D Warehouse. Eventually Disney will decide that they don't like that, but they haven't cared since they bought out Lucas, and Lucas didn't care for the several years those models were there before hand.
Maybe we need to differentiate between the legitimate rights holder and the model creator, but you never brought that up until now. You were always talking about the model creator, and that's where I pointed my response.
(Score: 1) by ArhcAngel on Wednesday February 19 2014, @01:18AM
So you basically did not understand my original comment about "controlling" this technology. I referenced 3DRM technology as a logical extension of existing DRM for the new tech but control comes in many forms. The C&D was another and you can bet this will escalate just like it has in audio and video. You'll see manufacturers lobbying to limit who can legally own either the printers themselves or the raw materials to make certain things. And I still disagree with you regarding private files getting out. If someone wants them bad enough they will get them.